Blessed Are the Icon Makers

[alliecat8]

Remember when I said I wanted to attempt making icon posts in comms? And then I didn't? Well, I was being Allie and keeping it in my brain but not getting on with it. Sigh. Anyhow, I think what's holding me up are some questions about what's an original icon that you can take credit for and what's not. I can't draw or do much of anything from scratch: I have to use "bases" I find "out there," wherever, on the internet. For instance these:






I feel like I can take credit for these because I got the pics from an uncopyrighted sight and I personalized them with words and effects. So I can claim them as my own work, right?

But what about this:



Also from an open site, but all I did was crop it. I have no idea who made it. Does cropping count as making it mine?

What is the etiquette? What are the rules? Is there a site where everything is laid out about what is MY work and what belongs to someone else, about where the line is drawn? Because I don't want to step on anyone's toes by claiming their work as mine in a comm, even if I did make changes and it wasn't a protected image. Help please?

Comments

[crowgirl13.livejournal.com]

I don't have any over-arcing rules for you, since different icon makers feel differently about this. If you're using someone's icon as a base, check their rules? Not-helpful T is not helpful. Sorry hon.

[alliecat8.livejournal.com]

T, it's okay! I steal my bases from Google images, so it's hard to check the maker's rules, but I'll try. I really don't want to be a thief! There's just so much shiny stuff out there...!

btw, I did find the maker of my tat and got permission from him...after the fact. If he'd said "no," well, I think I'd've just made myself okay with being a thief, lol!

[janie-tangerine.livejournal.com]

I'd say that cropping would qualify if you're talking about a screencap or an image without copyright. In case you're using someone else's art, the general etiquette is that you say 'art by person X, icon by me', and anyway it would be highly preferable that you asked the other person if they'd allow you to use their stuff. If you know who they are, of course. If you don't you can just go and say 'original image here' in your icon post and link to the source. Also you can totally claim the first two, yes. If you modified an image and it was copyright-free then it's totally cool. As with screencaps. I think that if you find images uncredited on open sites it would be okay to use them, but if you're using real fanart (or, idk, pictures taken at events like concerts or conventions or whatever) and you know the artist's/photographer's name I'd really advise to ask them because not everyone wants their work to be used without their permission. Or their pictures. There isn't a site with laid out rules or anything, but I've been making/posting icons for years and I can sum the deal up in:

1) Don't hotlink;
2) Credit as much as possible;
3) Ask other people first (if you can) if you want to use their work for a base.

That's pretty much the general etiquette. Then there's people who want their icons used just on LJ and people who don't care, but I think that those three ones are something everyone tries to do. (Unless they steal icons, but that's another whole drama. XD)

[gottalovev.livejournal.com]

+1 (well said Janie!)

seriously, I have nothing to add...

[alliecat8.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Janie kinda knocked it out of the park, didn't she? But thanks for checking in, anyhow! *SMOOOOOOCH!*

[alliecat8.livejournal.com]

Oh Janie, THANK YOU for the good, sensible advice. Your comment seems to be the standard practice, which is what I was looking for, and all seem to agree. I'd never hotlink. Crediting is hard when I'm taking pics from Google Images, but I'll do what I can. Again, it's hard to find the people to contact for base-using, but I'll try. I figure most people won't see their work in my journal anyhow, since the images I take aren't associated with LJ at all.

Now another question for the expert (that's you!). Where do you post your icons? I mean, where are the best places to post, for instance, Lost icons? Attitude icons? Nature icons? etc. I need to divide my stuff into categories (there are hundreds of them and I REALLY need to clean out the "closet," so to speak) and figure out where to make posts, other than in my journal. Can you offer any suggestions there?

♥ ♥ ♥

[janie-tangerine.livejournal.com]

Well you don't usually credit when you find stuff on Google Images. Unless it's pictures someone else obviously took and aren't, like, photoshoots or anything. So if it gets too hard-ish and you picked the thing from Google images I'd say don't be too hard on yourself. ;) As long as you credit when it's pictures or artwork on LJ or deviantart or where the maker is reachable it'd probably be good. :D

Expert says: it's usually more handy for you (mostly to manage comments) if you post all of the icons on your LJ and then cross-post them with a teaser on communities with a link to your LJ. More or less like it's with fic, except that you'd find icon comms and not fic comms and instead of a line from the fic you'd put three icons. Regarding where to post them, there are a bunch of comms around so you should probably go in the LJ search for interests and put whatever subject in. For Lost there's losticons and lostgraphics (or it's with a _ between lost and graphics, whatever XD) and then idk, if you make Jack/Sawyer icons among the rest you could cross-post them also to the Jack/Sawyer comm. You could also make the post directly to the comm, but I think that if you have everything in your LJ it's easier for you because you post just once. (While if you wanted to cross-post icons to, say, three comms, if you posted them to the actual comm you'd do it three times. Saves time.) I don't know about the rest, but if you have, idk, icons with flowers I'm sure there's a comm where you can post icons made out of wildlife pictures.

Also, if you have a bunch of stuff and it's various, I'd say it'd be more comfortable if you did huge posts with just one theme. IE, only Lost icons and then you post them to a Lost icons comm, then only flowers icons and you post them to the nature comm, Bruce Springsteen icons and you post them to some music icons comm (that was very unsurprisingly the first thing that came to my head...) and so on. Was that anywhere near clear or did I manage to NOT explain myself? XD

[alliecat8.livejournal.com]

You were spot-on clear and you gave me exactly the advice I was looking for. Well said, darling, and thank you so much - you've been a goldmine of help!

[siluria]

I'd say if you're pulling stock pictures from sites then if you give the original site credit (with a link) for the original picture then you're giving credit where it's due, and will get credit for resizing/cropping/text etc.

They're really nice, you work well with text :)

[alliecat8.livejournal.com]

So, that won't clutter up the site page too much? I'm venturing out of the safety of my journal and I don't want to be conspicuous. Can you direct me to any GOOD icon sites where my noob work might be welcome?

And OMG, THANK YOU for the compliment? You made my day. Both yesterday and today! *HUGS*

[siluria]

I actually don't know of icon sites outside of LJ or DW, but I know some people who are good with stock icons and I'll see if they know.

*hugs you*

[alliecat8.livejournal.com]

Aw *hugs back*. I'm really only interested in posting on LJ right now, so anything you know about is fine. I'll probably have a category for Lost, one for Jack/Sawyer, one for theater icons, one for travel icons, etc. I'm not interested iin competitions, I'd just lke to share!

[eponine119.livejournal.com]

Here's the thing, unless something is specifically UNcopyrighted under creative commons or whatever, it's copyrighted to someone. Even that stock guitar product shot off Amazon. ;) Now, most people won't get upset because it's nominally "fair use" which is allowed under copyright law, the same as fanfic is.

If it's stock from a stock site then most people say "Stock" because they're not paying for it. If you swiped it off somebody's website then you should probably credit but most people think if it's on Google Images, it's free for the taking.

If it's an artist or another icon maker's base then usually they are credited; often screen caps are also credited to the source. If you look around at icon posts you'll usually see how people are handling it.

In other words, everything they already said up there ^^^

[alliecat8.livejournal.com]

Did I do a baddie using that guitar? I got if off Google Images....

I don't swipe off websites, I use Google Images almost exclusively. But I have noticed that if you hover over the image it'll tell you whose it is, so I guess I can credit that way. Unfortunately, I'm only just now beginning to add the owner's name to the icon's name in my folder, so there are hundreds w/o credit. Can I go ahead and use them?

If you look around at icon posts you'll usually see how people are handling it.

That's where I'm confused. I don't know where to look; it seems as if people always credit themselves only. I don't make my icons from scratch (as you know from the Amazon guitar), so I need to see how others handle that and I don't know how. I'll figure it out, I guess.

Thanks to adding to the conversation! ♥

[eponine119.livejournal.com]

That's the thing, though, Google Images is just an index of stuff on peoples' websites.

If you look at my userpics page maybe it'll help? I think I have a couple like that. I never credit myself but I do credit others... let me know if you want more advice.

edit: You weren't bad, and if it's from Amazon, psh, who cares. Just wanted to clarify that.